The Free Land of the IDU

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Bears Armed
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The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Wed Jan 15, 2020 5:16 pm

Containing the main site for this region's various international councils and agencies, this territory has been under international administration -- rather than a nation in its own right -- ever since the 'region' was formally founded as an organisation of nations. Versions of it exist on the maps of both 'Earths' that the region has occupied, apparently with at least one route between these alternative realities situated within its boundaries. It was more-or-less uninhabited by humans before that foundation, although the version on the IDU's original world might have had a few earlier settlers scattered here & there... and had an independent clan of Ursines in the mountainous area closest to 'Bears Armed'.
(That version also contained ruins from the 'Luvarian' human civilisation, which had wiped itself out -- in "The Wizards' War" -- during the 1st century AD.)

The territory's "capital" is called Democracity.
(The capital wasn't actually named, OOC, until the issue about naming capitals came into use. I suggested this name as seeming appropriate, there was a discussion in which several players -- including the last to leave of the region's five original creators, Mikitivity, whom I was able to reach by email -- agreed with the choice and none disagreed, and then I answered the issue accordingly. AFAIK the name's original use was for a model "city of the future" that was among the exhibits at the 1939 World's Fair in New York...)

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Libertas Omnium Maximus
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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Libertas Omnium Maximus » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:44 pm

The Free Land of the IDU is an interesting case because it shouldn't really exist. You would think that the courts and administrative buildings of the IDU would be located just in a specific nation (Just as the EU's headquarters in Brussels). Since this is not the case, I am led to believe that the administrative buildings are held on their own sovereign territory, similar to the Vatican City. This is logical as it means that the IDU can't be perceived to favor its host nation. However, If we establish that the administrative buildings of the IDU are on their own sovereign territory, it begs the question, why on earth is this territory so massive? It's visible on the map (both the canonical map and the Pre-2019 map) and is even larger than several player-controlled nations. This isn't logical at all. Although it is its own state, the Vatican (the closest RL comparison I could think of) is only large enough to house all of its administrative buildings, some housing units for workers at said buildings, ceremonial buildings (the Sistine Capel, etc) and a few acres (like 4 or 5) acres of gardens. Additionally, it's entirely located within the confines of another nation's city. I couldn't reasonably envision the Free Land of the IDU being much bigger than that (Maybe 200-300 acres at max in size).

With all that in mind, I propose the following alterations to be made to The Free Land of the IDU's canon.

1. The Free Land of the IDU is no more than 1 sq. mile in size (2.6-ish sq. kilometers) and is entirely located within the confines of another nation's border, probably an older member who has been in the IDU for an incredibly long time.

2. The Free Land of the IDU is a sovereign state with its own executive and operates independently of the nation that surrounds it.

What say you, fellow IDUvians?

Regarding the idea of it being a city of the future like the one featured in the 1939 World Fair, I have no problem with it have an atomic age aesthetic (It happens to be my favorite building style). The proposed city was similar to many modern cities in a lot of ways, it just had a lot more Chevrolets and diners.

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Byzconia » Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:19 pm

I agree with making it much smaller, though I think it's unnecessary to move it inside of another nation's territory. The current status and situation of the Vatican is a result of the Catholic Church's history and there's no reason we really need to replicate that in our fictional world, imo.

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:16 pm

I don’t know for certain why the Free Land was originally given that area IC, but suspect that it was meant to reflect that fact that this “nation” had already been given a separate existence OOC by the region’s five creators — as a ‘puppet’ whose control they shared — instead of one of those players using their main nation for the ‘Founder’. Maybe Grosseschanuzer, as the first player to move a nation here after those creators, would know? As for its size, remember that the regional map itself was originally defined as covering a significantly smaller area than is now seen to be the case (only comparable to the “lower 48” states of the USA, approximately, in total) so that the Free Land would also have been smaller in absolute terms than now seems to be the case.

When I joined the region and started working on this nation’s history I explained the fact that the Bears’ existence had remained [basically] unknown until 2006 — despite nations around it having histories that IC went back for centuries — by saying that a ‘barrier’ (probably magical, but you can attribute it to “sufficiently advanced technology” if you want…) of ancient origins had [basically] kept other people out until that date but had now finally collapsed. Several other players, including Mikitivity (who was the last of the region’s five original creators still active) agreed with my suggestion that an extension of this barrier had also kept people out of what became ‘The Free Land’ until shortly before the region’s foundation as a political organisation just a few years earlier, meaning that the boundaries of its other neighbours had been fixed for a long time and that neither of them had any generally-recognised claims to it. This meant that choosing it as the site of the region’s new capital (for which its relatively central location would have been an added bonus) and making the entire area a ‘Region-controlled’ territory outside of any existing nation’s jurisdiction not only didn’t clash with any nation’s existing territorial claims but also helped to reduce the risk of those neighbours going to war over it…

____________________________________________

As for the version on the new map, I agree that it could viably be smaller but I think that reducing it to something like the Vatican City — without, after all (and as Byzconia has already pointed out here), the same sort of historical reason for that — would be a mistake. I think that at the very least it should be large enough to contain:

The headquarters of the IDUSA, and facilities for any ‘regional’ agencies that might be established;
Member nations’ “embassies” or “legations” or whatever to the IDUSA (which could also be useful for diplomatic relations between nations, saving them from having to maintain missions in every other nation here rather than just in those with which they have the most interaction…);
Outside nations’ & regions’ embassies to the IDU as a whole (as represented by the IDUSA) rather than to specific members;
Some nations might also want to add ‘cultural centres’ or ‘trade missions’ or schools or other institutions alongside their diplomatic establishments;
Accommodation for the staffs of these offices, and a reasonably amount of hotels for shorter-term visitors, plus all of the shops & services & utilities & so on that are needed to meet the usual needs of those residents & visitors;
An international airport, probably also a seaport, and maybe even [at least an area set aside in case it becomes needed for] a spaceport, so that people can come here directly from their homelands without needing to pass overland through any other nations;
At the least one Stadium for sporting events (& major concerts?), but probably actually several of these with differing roles;
Maybe a ‘Region’-run University? (I think that this possibility might have been discussed before, back in the dim & distant past…)
Botanical Gardens, showcasing plants from all across the region… and beyond. (Also, like the RL ones at Kew, a centre for the study of Botany & related matters world(s)-wide, and a site for the careful testing & propagation of species that member nations might want to import, export, or just conserve…)
Possibly also a Zoo, with the potential for ‘captive breeding’ programmes to help endangered species in addition to the basic educational role?
Accommodation, & so on, for those extra facilities’ employees (& their families) and visitors.

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Zamastan » Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:59 pm

I'd be more than happy to shrink the size of the "Free Land of the IDU". Bears Armed, if you could provide a screenshot of what/where specifically you'd like the new boundaries of the nation to look like, I can have that published within the next week.

Apologies for not being very available or for the lack of the updates on the map. I've been traveling a lot and dealing with some serious matters, and there haven't been any new map requests from nations.

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Libertas Omnium Maximus
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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Libertas Omnium Maximus » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:55 pm

Byzconia wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 7:19 pm
I agree with making it much smaller, though I think it's unnecessary to move it inside of another nation's territory. The current status and situation of the Vatican is a result of the Catholic Church's history and there's no reason we really need to replicate that in our fictional world, imo.
It doesn’t have to be inside of a city. It could also be its own city, which probably makes more sense. If it is it’s own city, it needs to have an airport and possibly even a harbor.

However, if it IS only a few dozen buildings then I do think that it probably has to be attached to another nation for pure logistical reasons (Transportation, housing of guests, etc.). Right now the nation is floating in the middle of the woods.

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:33 pm

Zamastan wrote:
Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:59 pm
I'd be more than happy to shrink the size of the "Free Land of the IDU". Bears Armed, if you could provide a screenshot of what/where specifically you'd like the new boundaries of the nation to look like, I can have that published within the next week.
I’d rather wait until more people have given their opinions about this.

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Laeral » Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:39 pm

I feel that the Free Land of the IDU should be the size of a city, but not quite so small as LOM seems to be suggesting above. Given all of the various functions that the capital territory would need that Bears mentioned above, I think it's likely that we'd see the city start to develop beyond just an administrative center, as businesses and services catering to those civil servants and diplomats working there would start to spring up, not just the "few dozen buildings" LOM discussed. I've always seen Democracity as something like one of the planned capitals seen in some countries- like Nur-Sultan in Kazakhstan or Brasilia in Brazil. So my thoughts are that we can assume the IDU territory comprises a medium-to-large city and its suburbs, perhaps the size of the District of Columbia in the US?

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Libertas Omnium Maximus » Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:50 am

Laeral wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 10:39 pm
I feel that the Free Land of the IDU should be the size of a city, but not quite so small as LOM seems to be suggesting above. Given all of the various functions that the capital territory would need that Bears mentioned above, I think it's likely that we'd see the city start to develop beyond just an administrative center, as businesses and services catering to those civil servants and diplomats working there would start to spring up, not just the "few dozen buildings" LOM discussed. I've always seen Democracity as something like one of the planned capitals seen in some countries- like Nur-Sultan in Kazakhstan or Brasilia in Brazil. So my thoughts are that we can assume the IDU territory comprises a medium-to-large city and its suburbs, perhaps the size of the District of Columbia in the US?
For what it's worth, I have been bouncing back and forth between the idea of Democracity being just an administrative center and being a full fledged city. I really have nothing wrong with the idea of it being a planned city like D.C. With that said, regardless of what which option we go with, it is still my opinion that Democracity should be attached to another nation instead of just floating in the middle of the woods (or possibly a desert, given the latitude and location). Think about D.C., for example. The suburbs of D.C. stretch all the way down into Virginia and all the way up into Maryland. You would need some sort of suburban area to support the city (As Laeral wisely pointed out). I personally think it's best to move these into a bordering nation than to make them part of the city-state/international zone (What terminology are we going with?) in order to reduce costs for the city's establishment (whenever it was established). Additionally, having Democracity border a pre-existing nation makes transportation of goods to and from the city a far simpler affair, with only miles, instead of hundreds (if not thousands) of miles, of track having to be placed to support fully functioning railway lines. Being a mid-to-large sized city, Democracity probably also has its own international airport, capable of supporting A380s and 747s.

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:31 pm

Libertas Omnium Maximus wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 4:50 am
For what it's worth, I have been bouncing back and forth between the idea of Democracity being just an administrative center and being a full fledged city. I really have nothing wrong with the idea of it being a planned city like D.C. With that said, regardless of what which option we go with, it is still my opinion that Democracity should be attached to another nation instead of just floating in the middle of the woods (or possibly a desert, given the latitude and location). Think about D.C., for example. The suburbs of D.C. stretch all the way down into Virginia and all the way up into Maryland. You would need some sort of suburban area to support the city (As Laeral wisely pointed out). I personally think it's best to move these into a bordering nation than to make them part of the city-state/international zone (What terminology are we going with?) in order to reduce costs for the city's establishment (whenever it was established). Additionally, having Democracity border a pre-existing nation makes transportation of goods to and from the city a far simpler affair, with only miles, instead of hundreds (if not thousands) of miles, of track having to be placed to support fully functioning railway lines. Being a mid-to-large sized city, Democracity probably also has its own international airport, capable of supporting A380s and 747s.
But then, what if that other nation CTEs?

:b2:

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Zamastan » Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:58 pm

I agree with the idea of having it as a smaller area surrounded by other countries, and I would propose we put it between nations that have a low risk of CTE. Perhaps Laeral and LOM? Or High Fells and Bears Armed?

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 pm

Zamastan wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 8:58 pm
I agree with the idea of having it as a smaller area surrounded by other countries, and I would propose we put it between nations that have a low risk of CTE. Perhaps Laeral and LOM? Or High Fells and Bears Armed?
The area between High Fells and Bears Armed seems to be mainly mountainous, and -- at least on the Bears' side -- sparsely populated: I wouldn't recommend it for this purpose.
Also, I think that still giving it enough of a coast for access from (or by planes flying over) international waters would be a good idea.
Between Laeral and LOM might work, but is rather "off-centre" as far as the region's distribution of lands & [at present] nations is concerned: If not in its current location, then how about on the coast just south of Lauchenoiria?

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Zamastan » Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:00 pm

Bears Armed wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 6:09 pm
The area between High Fells and Bears Armed seems to be mainly mountainous, and -- at least on the Bears' side -- sparsely populated: I wouldn't recommend it for this purpose.
Also, I think that still giving it enough of a coast for access from (or by planes flying over) international waters would be a good idea.
Between Laeral and LOM might work, but is rather "off-centre" as far as the region's distribution of lands & [at present] nations is concerned: If not in its current location, then how about on the coast just south of Lauchenoiria?
How about we open this up to more public participation? I think there are a lot of good ideas on where to place it (I would be in support with your idea of just south of Lauchenoiria and above Vulkaria), but I'd also like to hear more ideas for placement!

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Sun Feb 02, 2020 4:00 pm

Zamastan wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:00 pm
How about we open this up to more public participation?
I've just mentioned it in the RMB.

:bear:

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Gardavasque » Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:23 am

How about we open this up to more public participation? I think there are a lot of good ideas on where to place it (I would be in support with your idea of just south of Lauchenoiria and above Vulkaria), but I'd also like to hear more ideas for placement!
Is it time for another poll?

I see a couple of Qs in this thread:
1) Is Democracity a city-state, and administrative enclave, or just a small country?, and

2) Where should it be properly located to ensure no single nation could interfere with the flow of people and economic trade in and out of Democracity?

Have I got this right?

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Re: The Free Land of the IDU

Post by Bears Armed » Tue Feb 04, 2020 3:22 pm

Gardavasque wrote:
Tue Feb 04, 2020 9:23 am
How about we open this up to more public participation? I think there are a lot of good ideas on where to place it (I would be in support with your idea of just south of Lauchenoiria and above Vulkaria), but I'd also like to hear more ideas for placement!
Is it time for another poll?

I see a couple of Qs in this thread:
1) Is Democracity a city-state, and administrative enclave, or just a small country?, and

2) Where should it be properly located to ensure no single nation could interfere with the flow of people and economic trade in and out of Democracity?

Have I got this right?
Basically.
Also, re the second point, there's the matter of should it have a reasonably "central" location for ease of access instead of perhaps being stuck out at one edge of the map...

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